Ryan ([info]qwantz) wrote,
@ 2009-04-13 16:15:00
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on the newspaper comics page
At the Titans of Small Town show last weekend, I was chatting with some of the people there and someone (I've forgotten your name - sorry!) asked me about newspapers and comics and I had a revelation I'd never had before, which is as follows:

The death of newspapers is going to be great for comics, you guys!

And here's how I defend that:

When you say "comics" to people, they'll think of what they're familiar with. And if you say "comics" to most people in North America - and here "most people" unfortunately means "people who have never stepped inside a comics shop" - what they'll be familiar with will probably be three things: superheroes, Archie, and newspaper strips.

Superheroes are pretty easy to avoid if you don't read them: they're sold in comic shops, and the only time they intrude out of that is on amusement park rides and when movies come out. Archie you'll see in the checkout at grocery stores, but I don't see many adults (besides myself) flipping through them while waiting in line, and I don't think they sell much beyond the under 12 set. I think it's fair to say that newspaper strips are the only comics the average adult in North America has a chance to read every day. They're in the same paper that the news comes in! That's CONVENIENCE.

And what sucks is that most comics appearing in newspapers are BLAND. Terribly, similarly, depressingly bland.

There are exceptions! There are some great newspaper strips, I am pretty sure. And while it could be that newspaper syndicates offer a huge array of really good comics to papers, what the editors of every mainstream newspaper have overwhelmingly chosen, in every city I've ever lived in, traveled to, or otherwise read the papers of are the safe ones, the standbys: Garfield. Hi and Lois. Blondie. Hagar the Horrible. Beetle Bailey. Born Loser. Frank and Earnest. The Wizard of Id. I say "mainstream" newspapers because I've never seen an alt weekly running "Beetle Bailey" unless they're being particularly ironic. Look, The Onion's print edition thought it would be funnier to run Cathy in Spanish than it would be to run it in English, the language that the rest of the paper is printed in.

I'm referring to these comics as "bland" because they're all telling the same sorts of jokes, jokes that have long become predictable. I'm not saying they're terrible, because they're obviously appealing to an audience - and judging by the interchangeability of their humour and their comedic aesthetic, it seems like they're all appealing to the SAME audience.

That's where the problem is! The comics being printed in most newspaper comics pages don't appeal to the majority of people. Obviously one comic is never going to appeal to everyone, but there's so little variety in most comic pages that it reduces down to presenting only one sort of comic, only one sort of comedy, day after day. There's a variety of reasons (safety, momentum, the syndicates themselves) that these comics, the safe ones, are the comics that most people are exposed to, day after day. Can you really fault the public for deciding that maybe comics just aren't that good? For confusing the medium with the only examples they've seen of it? After years of reading the comics page and finding only one good comic - or worse, of reading the comics page and finding nothing but a sea of depressing comics that follow the formal structure of a joke, but are so wholly and unambiguously unfunny, they defy classification as "humor" - can you blame them for finally concluding, "Wow, maybe comics just aren't for me."?

And with newspapers (in their current format) struggling, so too is their comics page. It'll either die slowly or it'll morph into something different, and either way it'll be an improvement. It's going to be great, you guys! In 15 years, when young people hear the word "comics", they're not going to think "Garfield". Nobody but Garfield fans will think that! The rest of us will either be thinking of a comic that WE enjoy, or we'll never have actually read a comic and have fewer negative preconceptions about the form.

I want to be clear: this is not dissing newspaper comics, beyond those that I named, I suppose. I'm not saying all newspaper comics are terrible: in fact, I'm certain there's actually MORE terrible comics online than there are in print. And I'm not dissing print as a medium either - whether print or web comics, we're both doing comics, guys. What I am dissing, what I'm prematurely celebrating the death of, is the standard newspaper comics page: that ambassador which, for whatever reason, ended up privileging blandness over interest, sameness over change, safety over risks. That ambassador which once reached into the homes of most everyone in North America, introducing comics to a whole generation with a depressing, bland handshake that went on for 80 years. That ambassador which started out great, but which ended by giving a whole generation the smallest idea of what comics can be - of what comics ARE, right now.

This isn't a problem online because there is no syndicate there deciding which comics to price at which rate and no newspaper editors deciding for you what to read today. There's just comics - most of them free. If you find one you like, odds are the author is also linking to his or her favourites too, which is a great starting point for assembling your own reading list. There's tons of great work out there - you just need to go exploring.

The good newspaper comics will still be just as good when you're reading them online.



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[info]qwantz
2009-04-13 08:16 pm UTC (link)
tl;dr

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[info]naseemo
2009-04-13 08:37 pm UTC (link)
you beat me to the punch, ryry.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]qwantz, 2009-04-13 08:38 pm UTC

[info]beatonna
2009-04-13 08:23 pm UTC (link)
ryan this post made me want to go buy archie comics

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[info]qwantz
2009-04-13 08:29 pm UTC (link)
I know, right? Jenn's got some in the bathroom and they are the best thing to read while in the bathroom!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zamp, 2009-04-13 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarfboys, 2009-04-14 12:12 am UTC

[info]zestyhansolo
2009-04-13 08:26 pm UTC (link)
Is it a thing among comic writers to say something like "_____ is just not for me" and then link to that penny arcade comic? Because this is the second time I've seen it done today, and I've never seen it before.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]qwantz
2009-04-13 08:27 pm UTC (link)
I just think it's a really great comic / expression, and I can't say it without thinking of PA!

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(no subject) - [info]zestyhansolo, 2009-04-14 03:25 am UTC

[info]wigu
2009-04-13 08:27 pm UTC (link)
Ryan I noticed with that Tom the Dancing Bug comic you linked directly to the gif, instead of the actual webpage which provides context and access to the archives!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]qwantz
2009-04-13 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Excellent! I had to find it using GIS because there is no search engine, and it took me a while, but I love Tom the Dancing Bug, so it was Time Well Spent. I'll update the post!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wigu, 2009-04-13 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ericmonster, 2009-04-13 08:33 pm UTC

[info]qcjeph
2009-04-13 08:36 pm UTC (link)
COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE, SIR

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[info]raanve
2009-04-13 08:44 pm UTC (link)
I think these are all great points, particularly with the tendency that major newspapers have to run "zombie strips" [B.C. is probably the most egregious example of this I can think of right now.]

It would seem to me that one way to maintain readership would be to let some fresh comics into newspapers, instead of these weird, shambling, outdated strips that somehow keep going and going. I've been known to buy a Sunday paper just so I could read comics; these days, I read a few mainstream dailies, and I read them entirely online. (The rest of the strips I read are high quality web comics that feature, say, talking dinosaurs, or sad children, or ... you get the point.) As far as actual story goes, I'm happier with webcomics. Most of the mainstream strips I read for snark purposes.

Anyway, excellent blog post!

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[info]furtim
2009-04-13 08:55 pm UTC (link)
The one newspaper comic I completely and wholeheartedly and unironically love is Lio, but I read it online anyway.

The one with the ants is the most awesome thing to every grace a newspaper comics page.

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Garfield Without Panels
[info]https://me.yahoo.com/idontlikewords#e4c5c
2009-04-13 10:14 pm UTC (link)
Following your link to Lio brought to my attention that there is apparently a single-panel version of Garfield available, conceivably for people who aren't prepared to make the three-panel commitment up front?

http://www.gocomics.com/lifeaccordingtogarfield

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Garfield Without [Garfield] - [info]diminishedfifth, 2009-04-27 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stokerbramwell, 2009-04-14 05:45 am UTC

[info]thefivemodfour
2009-04-13 08:59 pm UTC (link)
I like this idea! Kind of like how MP3s are supposedly "killing the music industry" when it reality it means Celine Dion sells 2 million records instead of 9 million, and instead of picking that up, a few people buy this obscure record over here, a few buy this obscure record over there, a few more buy this thing iTunes recommended based on their playlists, and so on.

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[info]mystical_chickn
2009-04-13 11:45 pm UTC (link)
That's more or less what I was thinking about while reading this, as well.

(I probably wouldn't own half the CDs in my collection if it weren't for mp3s)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]granulac
2009-04-13 09:00 pm UTC (link)
You said it all, Ryan!

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[info]thirdprophet
2009-04-13 09:03 pm UTC (link)
I think that newspapers themselves are still working off a very outmoded model of thought, which is partially why they're struggling to survive so much. And I think that comics, especially independent webcomics, have been struggling to forge a new path in the venue that is the web, with the main problem that there isn't a centralization of access like the olden days of the newspaper.

I think that comics in newspapers is pretty much obsolete. Not only do I rarely hear of people picking up a newspaper to read the comics in there, almost nobody I know actually enjoys the comics themselves - Dilbert, For Better or for Worse, that kind of thing. Like you said, it appeals to a seemingly narrow target audience within the already-thinning audience of the printed paper.

I think that newspaper comics CAN be safely dissed and dismissed. And I think that just as newspapers need to evolve more fully in order to survive and thrive in the modern age, distribution of comics, especially webcomics, is also still in its infancy and figuring out exactly where it needs to go and how. Is revenue for online comics to be had from merchandising, advertising, or what? And how can online comic writers and artists band together to promote and grow the medium and not get it dismissed as just a juvenile pastime or stale teenage humor?

Because for every bad comic that's printed in a newspaper, there are fifty terrible comics out there on the web that makes nobody but the artist's weird aunt laugh. I often have a hard time even trying to get a friend to read Dino Comics, because they don't understand where it comes from or the kind of shift in mindset they have to make from reading Family Circus when they hear the word "comic".

I think that one thing that's really helping some of the webcomics out there right now (for me, anyway) is that they are associated with personalities. Penny-Arcade is the most obvious one, but other sites, mainstream or not, such as xkcd, Dino Comics, or Dr. McNinja almost have a personality of their own independent of the comics themselves - the writer shines through in little ways, be it alt text over the images or blog posts or a Twitter account that people start to follow. It creates a more organic connection between the work and the readership.

anyway nothing im saying is particularly interesting so i will end abruptly without capitalization or punctuation for no good reason hah

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[info]premium_shaday
2009-06-10 03:23 pm UTC (link)
IAWTC.

Especially that last sentence. That was magic.

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[info]simonbob
2009-04-13 09:10 pm UTC (link)
The only problem is, people are stupid and they don't like to be bumped out of their daily thought processes. We like to think that our generation is going to turn out differently, but we're not. For every one of us discussing the terrors of comic change here, there's two hundred uncaring future wage slaves typing "LOL RLY?" into a cell phone at five cents a message.

Still, I appreciate the sentiment.

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[info]thechiefcommie
2009-04-14 01:21 am UTC (link)
LOL RLY?

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(no subject) - [info]simonbob, 2009-04-14 01:58 pm UTC

[info]chipzdarsky
2009-04-13 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Stop trying to destroy me, Ryan. I never did anything to you except for enjoy you on many occasions.
Love,
Chip

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[info]qwantz
2009-04-13 09:42 pm UTC (link)
We are above this, Chip! Hand in hand, above the entire planet.

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(no subject) - [info]chipzdarsky, 2009-04-13 09:47 pm UTC

[info]riceboyart
2009-04-13 09:42 pm UTC (link)
Very heartening!

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Mr. North for Comics President
(Anonymous)
2009-04-13 09:45 pm UTC (link)
This is the most cohesive statement about how I really feel about comics that I have ever seen. Thanks for putting the problems with most syndicated comics out there so clearly, hopefully some one will listen to the dino king. Will definitely link to this!
Comics Guy
www.dailycomicsreview.com

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Great article
(Anonymous)
2009-04-13 09:54 pm UTC (link)
I came upon a similar conclusion not long ago as well, but it was nowhere near as intelligent and eloquent as yours. It was basically "Garfield and other newspaper comics suck and they should die so people stop thinking those are the only comics out there."
This is a much better article, I think, and I'm glad you wrote it.

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[info]knastymike
2009-04-13 09:56 pm UTC (link)
Huzzah, Mr. North. : )

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[info]premium_shaday
2009-06-10 03:26 pm UTC (link)
I spent way too much time reading your icon. XD EPIC.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]knastymike, 2009-06-11 03:32 am UTC
Newspaper blandness - Could slogans be the answer?
[info]professordudley
2009-04-13 10:55 pm UTC (link)
I have tried to explain this to my parents time and again, that it isn't that the newspaper comics are BAD, per se, it's just that they're not good. It's like saying that the food at McDonald's isn't THAT bad. Which is not unlike saying that spraining your ankle isn't THAT bad, because you could have broken your foot. Maybe newspaper comics just need a new slogan to broaden their appeal -


Newspaper Comics: The "Light Beer" of Funny


The Funny Pages: Making Sure You Don't Laugh TOO Hard


Beatle Bailey: Real Army Stories Would Make You Cry


Hagar the Horrible: Because No One Wants to Laugh About Burning Villages


The Wizard of Id and B.C. : Mediocre Parables for the Masses


The Family Circus: They're Unremarkable, Just Like Your Children!


Shoe: They're Birds! Get it?

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Re: Newspaper blandness - Could slogans be the answer?
[info]dave_baker
2009-04-16 01:34 am UTC (link)
I was astonished when I found out that 'love is' is actually a real comic, not an invention of Homer Simpson's mind.

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Re: Newspaper blandness - Could slogans be the answer? - [info]premium_shaday, 2009-06-10 03:28 pm UTC

[info]der_pudel
2009-04-13 11:25 pm UTC (link)
I think it's hard to make something funny, every day, for 30 years. That's all.

But it's hard to end something that pays the bills. Only, apparently, Berkely Breathed can do that.

Not that I disagree with editors always going with mediocrity that's reliable. Isn't this the same problem the American film industry suffers from?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]raanve
2009-04-14 01:32 am UTC (link)
Hey, sorry, this is off topic, but that icon is pretty much perfect. Do you know who made it, and if it's okay if I use it (with proper crediting)?

Thanks.:)

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(no subject) - [info]diminishedfifth, 2009-04-27 11:42 pm UTC

[info]mystical_chickn
2009-04-13 11:52 pm UTC (link)
Heh, my mom STILL buys Archie comics.

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[info]kingkibble
2009-04-14 12:10 am UTC (link)
Oh man remember the sonic archie comics?

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Even worse Archie comic
[info]professordudley
2009-04-16 07:22 am UTC (link)
Sonic and Archie? What about that crossover with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Or even better, all those Archie comics that were all about how much they loved Jesus. Oh yeah, they're out there.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Even worse Archie comic - [info]kingkibble, 2009-04-16 07:25 am UTC
Re: Even worse Archie comic - [info]professordudley, 2009-04-16 07:44 am UTC
Re: Even worse Archie comic - [info]kingkibble, 2009-04-16 07:51 am UTC

[info]angela_la_la
2009-04-14 12:40 am UTC (link)
I certainly hope you read Comics Curmudgeon, the only website which makes me laugh harder than Dinosaur Comics, which is saying quite a bit actually. For full running-gag effect start in the archives and work forwards in time, but even just jumping in on the first page is pretty sure to crack you up.

Seriously, I stopped finding newspaper comics funny when I was about 12 (except in the context of the aforementioned site), and I was not a particularly sophisticated child.

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[info]suitcasegnome
2009-04-14 12:53 am UTC (link)
Hee, the only thing I could think of when reading this is "I wonder if this would have any effect on the awesomeness that is Comics Curmudgeon?" SO GOOD.

Also, I dig the Margo icon. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]qwantz, 2009-04-14 11:03 am UTC

[info]mrobot
2009-04-14 12:46 am UTC (link)
aw i wanted to go to the titans of tiny town but you guys wanted too much money. you better not have had a really good time.

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[info]qwantz
2009-04-14 11:04 am UTC (link)
It actually went to the gallery show to rent the space, it is not like we were getting rich off of you! But next time I will see if we can't find a cheaper space. UNFORTUNATELY WE DID HAVE A REALLY GOOD TIME AND YOU MISSED OUT!!!!

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[info]tuba_chuckles
2009-04-14 01:19 am UTC (link)
This is true, and you're right that essentially anything is an improvement on what we have in terms of newspaper comics nowadays. But this theory hinges on people going out and finding an alternative once the newspaper comics are gone. If this doesn't happen, then the world will either still judge by the ideas of the newspaper comics "of old," that they used to know, or simply conclude that comics as they know them (or at least so they think) are dead.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]psychonaut_raz
2009-04-14 01:53 am UTC (link)
Yeah I'm of two minds about it as well....I do agree that people's perceptions of comics are shaped by crappy newspaper strips (and crappy cartoons they watched when they were a kid but that's another issue I guess), but once the newspaper strips are gone, I don't know if people are gonna magically start investigating what actually is available out there in the world of comics.

Movies like Watchmen and Dark Knight I think can only help too, where people see that you can do more complex stories with four color characters...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]coyotecoyote
2009-04-14 01:49 am UTC (link)
Did I make a post saying I agree with you? I thought I did, but it looks like I didn't. Well, I do.

(Reply to this)


[info]cheesechick
2009-04-14 04:39 am UTC (link)
You've probably seen it already, but Joe Mathlete Explains Marmaduke is pretty hilarious.

(Reply to this)


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